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Post by "The Fiery Target" Jake Raab on Oct 2, 2019 5:03:49 GMT -8
I want to ask for some feedback on stuff I'm doing for Jake. I don't know where I'm going wrong with my stuff, whether it's CD or shoots. Not that there's anything wrong with losing or that I will leave as you know me, I will never quit feds over losses, that's not me. If anyone can give me some either here or via PM, that'll be great.
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Post by Joshua Samson, ESQ on Oct 16, 2019 10:30:18 GMT -8
Nick aka Jason Dave, we're looking at you, sir. Also if I'm around this weekend, Fizz, hit me up on Discord so we can discuss.
Tate
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Post by Jason Dave on Oct 16, 2019 19:51:27 GMT -8
Deeply sorry I missed this, must have slipped through the cracks. If I find some time I will read a couple of your promos and see what I can find.
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Post by Jason Dave on Oct 16, 2019 21:30:58 GMT -8
Did I say find time? I mean immediately catch up on my lack of activity and use my insomnia for productivity! I’m a bit of a sectional when it comes to breaking things down. What I mean by that is I’ll look at things piece by piece (it’s kind of how I was educated, which is why I am like this). So because you’re not sure what you’re doing with your character CD, shoot-wise, etc. I am going to try to break it all down as much as possible.
First and foremost, I want to recommend this whole heatedly: create someone new. Fizz, you and I have been in a lot of the same feds I think for the past 5 to 8 years. One thing that I have noticed in recent times is your Raab characters. (I took the liberty of looking over your contract as well for this information). You show a lot of similarities between each member of the Raab family, which in terms of living outside of the federation world (real life, I don’t know why I make things sound so complex sometimes) that’s perfectly okay. In this world, the world of e-fedding, I think that it might be good to put the Raab family on the shelf and step away from them entirely. In your biography and character gimmick, you talk about how he shares a lot of similarities between each of his brothers. I think that these similarities alone, can drain a writer when you’re writing the same thing or within the same similar guidelines over and over and over again. Perhaps, what you need is a breath of fresh air and come up with someone totally separated from the Raab family. You’ll always have the name and the characters to use freely, but if you do take this advice, I highly suggest not including the Raab family in any new character development in the future.
Now, without further ado, LET US BEGIN!
My Initial Skim:
I noticed that in my quick overlook of your RPs, you have a lot of dialogue. Not theoretically a common shoot, I mean dialogue between characters. While this is not terrible, because it is a way of building a character’s personality, I think you descriptions are lacking. Your openings especially. You set up the scene with a location (great), you give us a day (helpful for organization), you even give us a title of the scene (a great organizational piece), but then the scene begins and I’m a bit underwhelmed. I do think that your descriptions can easily be improved to help give you a better impact. For what that content is to be, I shall get into it further below.
Your alignment:
Now, I’ve always believed that it is much MUCH more difficult to operate as a basic face than it is a basic heel. What I say Jake Raab as, solely based on your shoots, is a basic face. What I mean by that is...lacking of personality, overly optimistic when not necessary, overly respectful, etc. I use this for humorous purposes, but Plank from Ed, Ed, and Eddy has more personality on a microphone than Jake Raab does (I do apologize if that was harsh, my intent was for humor). Being personality-less can work, but when you are writing I PROMISE YOU that it is so terribly hard to find creativity and back a character whose personality is worse than Plank from Ed, Ed and Eddy. I think this goes back to what I said earlier about stepping away from the Raab family, but I can dive deeper into that later (I was digressing).
Being a face can be difficult and oftentimes it can be hard to build a character from a face perspective. Being personality-less is one of those hurdles. I’m not saying be full on Johnny Nitro/John Morrison on the mic, or Bo Dallas and the B-Team on the mic either, find something that you’re comfortable working with. Expand the realm of your character, separate yourself from the Raab family. You have such a strong grasp on the idea of the Raab family I think it is limiting you with your character development. If Jake Raab is a man that wants to separate himself from the Raab pack (peep the possible stable name for the future if they are ever all face and bubbly characters) then there should be little to no willful connection to Markus or Konrad. Any of that connection can happen off-camera to help build your character, but leave that for off-camera and don’t bring it to on-camera.
Sin City Wrestling:
Leave them out of this. I understand working in multiple feds and trying to keep some sort of linearity between your character there and your character here, but the best advice I can tell you is to simply ignore it. I understand that can be hard, but here’s the thing: If I am in a judge's shoes (and I have been from time to time), if I see CD that acknowledges another match in another federation in the present tense, RED FLAG! Is it okay to use CD that you use for here that you do with Sin City Wrestling? Absolutely, I do not discourage that in a sense, because you want to have some linearity between both your character in SCW and IPW. Here’s the thing though, you need to have a focus on one or the other in your pieces. Don’t talk about having a match with SCW and IPW in the same week. It’s not beneficial to either party (the writer and the judge). It can create confusion and personally, I think that as a judge I would hate to see it because then I’m thinking “Okay, he/she isn’t actually writing this for this match/fed, they’re writing it for both.” Personally, I think that it’s not an effective use of your word count either.
Grammar and Language:
Now I know that every country has their own set of language and grammar and I bring this up because I think I remember somebody mentioning (and remember this is a memory I am trying to recall from the past 5-8 years) that you’re from Europe? (Please correct me if I am wrong.) Regardless, there are apps that are out there to help you polish your grammar and language, I do recommend using them. Even Google docs has a basic grammar tool and it has been flagging me left and right as I’ve been typing this. I would suggest to start there, they will help you fix any glaring mistakes.
Overall:
I think the biggest things to take away from this is personality growth, grammar, and descriptions. You can easily continue on as a basic face, but I do suggest developing some sort of personality to your character. The grammar, I know doesn’t seem like a huge deal, but in the long run it can make the difference. Some people hold grammar in a high regard, others not so much, but regardless it is good to have a strong grasp on it. I think that your descriptions and scenes could use a lot of work. Also one thing I forgot to mention is transitions between descriptions is huge. I don’t want to use specifics right now because this is all very general and just a basic quick skim on my part. I think even just describing the scene a bit more, maybe changing the perspective in writing (1st vs 2nd vs 3rd person) could aid you in your future endeavors. I think before you really start committing to a story-line with your character, these are some of the things that I highly recommend that you work on and develop.
Now, I know this is all very general and I am sure not every single RP is like the other. If you want more specific feedback, for example, working with a single RP to show you specifics, I would be more than happy to assist. I see that you’ve done a couple of RPs here and usually I would read through them and try to pull out specific examples, but it is a little late for me right now, but I did want to at least offer some sort of perspective or acknowledgement as to what I’ve noticed.
If you have any questions, concerns, or would like further feedback you can always hit me up on PM or just ask in this post. I am always up to offer whatever knowledge I have or try to help in anyway shape or form.
Best regards,
JD.
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Post by "The Fiery Target" Jake Raab on Oct 22, 2019 3:56:38 GMT -8
I hear you dude and I apprechate a lot on the feedback which I agree on all points, but even using the grammery app which I use for grammar mistakes doesn't seem to work. I never had grammar lessons at school or college and I don't think I'd be able to improve on it, even with the grammery app.
The problem with the whole creating new characters without using Raab characters is I can't get past the lack of interaction with other people thing along with lack of story as I'm awful at developing a character's background and a story which I always get a writers block when I either need someone to work with or I run out of ideas completely because there's no places in fedding world to build a character's story before they get put in the ring.
I don't know how you all are able to do that from the word go without needing a character development place to develop a story and without using your own old characters to work with.
I tried with Shawn Young and Agostino Romano, but I ended up having them connected to Raab character because I had no ideas to advance a character and lack of people wanting to interact or work with my characters or finding someone to work with to train them which would've taken months possibly a year for that to happen.
I have thought of bringing Agostino back as I had fun with him, only I worry going back to the roots of Raab connection cos I need Agostino to interact with and train with someone which nobody has offered to work with them.
Basicially I need someone to collaberate with to get a background story and character interaction, but I have no idea who to ask or how to go about it because each time I open a request to ask someone to collaberate with me, although I haven't tried here yet, nobody ever responds.
Hence why it's easier for me to develop characters with Raab connections than not, especially when both of them had no other wrestling people to turn to train and give advice about wrestling, likewise with Jake too. Creating random NPC friends for interaction can only go so far that once again, I'd still hit a writers block like Jake and Olivia interaction has.
The archery thing is what makes Jake stand out to Konrad and Markus which they wouldn't do as it's not their cup of tea. It just means I need to do more on that instead of the general stuff I do.
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Eon Night
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Wild at Heart
Posts: 8
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Post by Eon Night on Oct 22, 2019 5:09:52 GMT -8
Greetings.
I can not give you characterial feedback, as i do not know your work, but as far as grammar difficulties go, i understand you. I had the same problem in my e fed beginnings.
My advice to you? Read as much english as you can, preferably short stories, and try to take some basic grammar classes. If you have the time, of course. As far as i know, german and english differ in sentence building forms and some basic grammar classes would help you improve your writing.
Hope that helps.
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Post by "The Fiery Target" Jake Raab on Oct 22, 2019 9:02:29 GMT -8
Let me add more to this on what I've mentioned above and a question in a way too. How do you develop a character that's been a wrestling fan all of their life and wants to wrestle, but don't know any top names in wrestling that would train them realistically? Because bringing an NPC wrestler to train them when nobody has heard of him or her or their achievements in made-up companies with made-up titles which I've never been a fan of is unrealistic.
Making a character that has years of wrestling experience in a made-up company nobody heard of is unrealistic too. People in this game are way too clever these days to dig through the info of the NPC wrestler and then they'd find out they, the companies they were in and their title achievements don't exist. That's the other main issue I always had when making characters from scratch.
I thank you for the whole grammar help there, Eon Night and I also appreciate your ways of helping me too.
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Post by Joshua Samson, ESQ on Oct 22, 2019 9:07:38 GMT -8
A wrestling school is always a Good start. Aaron Kostan is a prime example of that. Although his character is a second generation wrestler, Kostan trained at a local indy gym in South Carolina.
Tate
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Post by Aaron Kostan on Oct 22, 2019 12:11:19 GMT -8
Felt my ears burning, so had to come give my two cents here.
So yeah, when I was creating Aaron I had the nickname "the artist." To me that meant traditional, that mean it was like wrestling was in his blood, hence the family connection. That also meant I wanted the idea that upon arriving in EHWF at the time that he would already have to be considered a great wrestler in order to have achieved the nickname "the artist." So I did the wrestling school idea. I think that's a phenomenal place to start developing a character because there are hundreds of wrestling schools so of course no one has ever heard of the particular one your guy went to! I even made sure that every time I brought up Goldfeld's (The name of the wrestling gym Aaron trained at) I mentioned the squeaky doors, water stained ceiling tiles, cracked leather seats...It's a hole in the wall, not some extravagant gym that everyone has heard of. You could even swing that into an underdog, rags to riches kind of deal if you want.
Now I also had to deal with the fact that since he was a third generation wrestler people would OF COURSE bring up the "well I've never heard of your family before" thing. Not saying that's bad that my opponents have brought it up, it makes sense. But as easy as it is to bring up, it's also really easy to counter in my eyes. If you've seen the John Wick movie, think of it this way...Iosef had no clue who John Wick was, that's why he stole his car and killed his dog...that didn't stop John from killing numerous baddies before taking him out too. Just because they don't know who you are or where you come from doesn't mean you can't show them exactly who you are...said menacingly of course. Heck, if anything, it makes your character more dangerous if they don't know who he is or what he's capable of. History is rife with instances of people or armies who were gravely underestimated because no one really knew who they were until it was too late.
And one final thing, as it says in my sig down there and as I have told numerous people I am ALWAYS willing to work one-off or short term or even long term angles with people, or even just helping brainstorm ideas for just your character alone, sometimes talking ideas out with others helps the creative juices get flowing. I'm not the most creative person, but working with other people adds a layer of excitement to the hobby, and I am always down for that.
Oh, and also, Nick I have seen a lot of RP feedback over the years of efedding but you go all out, and it's always amazing! Heck, I read your advice for other people just to critique my own work. Hats off to you.
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Post by Jason Dave on Oct 22, 2019 12:33:11 GMT -8
A wrestling school is always a Good start. Aaron Kostan is a prime example of that. Although his character is a second generation wrestler, Kostan trained at a local indy gym in South Carolina. Tate I think Tate offers a great option going forward or even for a potential revamp/restart. --- I read your concerns and I do understand that it is hard to craft NPCs that really have no value to anyone within the e-fedding world other than yourself. I think my 2 cents on that is to think about modern entertainment wrestling, a lot of these guys have gone through local gyms, maybe they've been trained by former superstars, etc. I think in this realm of e-fedding, a lot of that tends to be negligent. Personally, I do not see a lot of importance to that but I do understand that you have a strong belief within that realm. As I stated above, I think Tate offers a great option going forward, but there is one thing I do wish to say about that: character development within in a gym or a training setting, I think will get you nowhere. Personally I stray away from gym scenes unless I incorporate it within a shoot. Typically speaking, I think these are overused, feel so incredibly rehearsed and bland, a lot of times there isn't substance to be found in these types of scenes. We all know, each superstar trains in a gym or a gym setting to a degree. It's a similarity that you can find in probably about 95% of characters. When you have a strong focus on those kinds of scenes, it is hard to find a degree of separation between you and the next guy. Now, what I am about to say might sound a little far-fetched or a odd, but I promise I will explain. You don't want the next guy to be different than you, you want to be different than the next guy. Allow me to elaborate: If the next guy is different than you, he or she stands out more over you. Now, if you're different than the next guy, you then are different from the rest and stand out more. Gym scenes and training scenes I don't personally believe are going to get your there. The only time where these scenes I think are acceptable, are when your character is something like Mike Marvelous (I am using him as a an example that you can check on and understand what I mean). He has a character that he's created to be self-absorbed into his own body mass and beauty, he's very cocky and obsessed over his body. Him in the gym, makes complete sense to build his character because he can go to gym to gym breaking gym records, putting people down because they don't look like him, etc. For Jake, I think that there's the potential to have a bit more substance than that. Unless it's truly part of his character, I would work your way away from gym and training scenes. I also fully understand wanting to work with other writers/handlers when it comes to character development, but don't you think you might be putting too much of an emphasis on that type of interaction? I'll try to use real life examples when I speak of this idea. You as the writer, have the ability to construct your own universe, much like the MCU or the DCEU. These are two superhero universes that exist in their own realm, but both exist in our universe. While you have complete control of the Raab family universe, it doesn't mean you have to incorporate the Raab family universe where it may not be necessary. MCU and DCEU are not interacting with one another, they're stand-alone, but they both exist in our universe. So, while the Raab family universe exists in the E-fedding universe, that doesn't mean someone like Shawn Young or Agostino Romano has to interact with the Raab universe. Of course, the MCU and the DCEU acknowledge each others existence, but they don't really interact. I realize after trying to explain that it came off a bit confusing, so please ask questions if you don't quite understand. Remember, it is you that controls your character's universe. You don't have to interact with other handlers or writers, a lot of times they can be a complete hit or miss. You have to work with their understanding of your character and your understanding of their character and that is a HUGE grey area. That can be really devastating when you are working with someone that doesn't quite understand your character or your character's direction and what follows is a complete clusterfuck. I understand that it can be quite daunting to construct a timeline or a storyline for your character to follow and you may lose interest in it right away, but isn't that just life? Life takes twists and turns, you may be on a path and then lose interest and change your mind or something devastating happens, etc. You don't have to worry about building a character with accomplishments or history in a make-believe fed. A lot of times it can be easy as you did it as a side hustle for fun but then you fell in love with it and this is your first opportunity on a bigger stage. Think of it like a local business taking a step outside of their community and moving further to bigger and better things (expanding, branding, trades, stock, etc.). With the archery piece, I think something that would be beneficial would be to explore the emotional connection that Jake has with archery. I know it sounds cliche, but maybe it was something that Jake and his father did as a kid, father passed and it's how he commemorates his father and or holds a strong hearted connection to his past. I'm just tossing out an idea, I don't really know enough of the Raab universe that you've developed to be sure I am making a good or safe suggestion.
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Post by Jason Dave on Oct 22, 2019 12:37:46 GMT -8
Oh, and also, Nick I have seen a lot of RP feedback over the years of efedding but you go all out, and it's always amazing! Heck, I read your advice for other people just to critique my own work. Hats off to you. Much appreciated, I think it's because of the educational system I grew up in. A lot of it was highly feedback based and competencies (fuck that shit). It was largely broken down into different sub-categories of grading like critical thinking, creativity, etc. Always depended on the class and the assignment. I've also been raised by my parents to break things down and look at it as a big picture made up of little pictures. It's easier to understand when you break things down sectionally in my eyes than trying to do a full scale modification. There are always somethings that people do well and other things people could use a little more work on, but I believe in giving credit where credit is due.
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Post by William James Cordova on Oct 24, 2019 7:20:24 GMT -8
I recommend finding the direction you want your character to head in before being booked. Having a direction is key and will allow you to at least have the ability to write up some CD material for your role-plays.
Whoever owns the fed and does the judging is who I would talk to and see if I am able to get a feel on their process and the way she look at things. Also, go look at grading rubic page as well.
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lashyd
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Posts: 8
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Post by lashyd on Oct 27, 2019 23:54:26 GMT -8
Heylo! Can I just say, first of all, that I think it is SO great that you have turned to "the family" for assistance and guidance with all of this. Willingness to learn, develop and grow is ALWAYS smiled upon Ok, I'll cut the BS now haha. When I was brainstorming Lash Donohue, it came to me that I wanted to challenge myself and try to play a role which is the polar opposite of who I am in every single way imaginable. I can assure you, I'm certainly not the mouthy manwhore from hell 🤣 Wait where was I? Oh. Right. Where I was going with that, is it actually has been SO much fun and SO simple playing this character. It's like a total departure. He gets to do things I can only conjure in my head and say stuff that I'd DEFINITELY get fired for. It's a blast. I have to recommend trying this whole polar opposite personality deal.
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Eon Night
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Wild at Heart
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Post by Eon Night on Oct 28, 2019 10:26:29 GMT -8
Fanfiction.net
For all your short story needs. Stories from amateur writers, for avid readers.
Helped me with my english reading advancement.
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Post by 🐝BumbleBree on Oct 28, 2019 10:56:21 GMT -8
Heylo! Can I just say, first of all, that I think it is SO great that you have turned to "the family" for assistance and guidance with all of this. Willingness to learn, develop and grow is ALWAYS smiled upon Ok, I'll cut the BS now haha. When I was brainstorming Lash Donohue, it came to me that I wanted to challenge myself and try to play a role which is the polar opposite of who I am in every single way imaginable. I can assure you, I'm certainly not the mouthy manwhore from hell 🤣 Wait where was I? Oh. Right. Where I was going with that, is it actually has been SO much fun and SO simple playing this character. It's like a total departure. He gets to do things I can only conjure in my head and say stuff that I'd DEFINITELY get fired for. It's a blast. I have to recommend trying this whole polar opposite personality deal. This is a good way of putting it! It’s why I like being a heel compared to a hero because I’m a shy quiet person in reality. What I say as her is what I wish I could say to some of my coworkers haha.
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